Louisiana Selected Man
by
George J. North, Jr.
George J. North, Jr.
Dr. Stephen E. Ambrose
U. S. Presidents and the Cold War
November 28, 1994
An Oral Histroy
The purpose of an oral history is to personalize history. This assignment includes selecting an appropriate individual, preparing for, then arranging and conducting a personal interview. Selection of an appropriate individual was of some concern to me. Very early on, I sought and received permission to interview a veteran of World War II. Permission to do so was required because this assignment was to interview someone in military service during the Cold War period which started after WWII. So that I would conform to the assignment, I searched and found an acquaintance who, in the Navy, spent one year in Germany around 1966. I spoke with him on two occasions in preparation for an interview. Mostly he related how much fun he and his wife had in Europe. They traveled as much as possible. Still, I knew there was a story there somewhere, because he worked with military ease-dropping technology, and had a top-secret clearance. In preparation, I reread the assignment.
The purpose of an oral history is to personalize history. I then realized that, for myself, history will never be more personal than an interview with my father. I am grateful for the opportunity that this assignment has provided. George North, Sr. is a gentle man willing to help all, unable to harm any. On August 22, 1941, America had not yet entered the war. A military draft was begun the previous October. With some of his brothers and friends already in the service, my father was prepared when his turn came. On entering the service he received four weeks basic training . He spent the next three years in the US working a desk job. In August 1944 he was ordered to Europe, and became one of many troops used for reinforcements. His only experience firing a weapon came in 1941 during basic training with a World War I vintage rifle. He was now assigned to an infantry Regiment already deeply involved in combat.
The interview was transcribed from an audio cassette recording (included). The interview was also video taped (included). The audio and video recording are mostly identical, but each contain segments that are both unique and interesting. One week after the initial interview, an additional interview was conducted.
In my years of schooling, no project has has given me more satisfaction than this. I can only hope that the information presented here, in some way, is of help and interest to others. I found it of extreme interest.
"The Arm Band 'Louisiana Selected Man' shown above was pinned to the arm of Pre-Pearl Harbor draftees on the day they left for their one year tour of military duty. The popular song of the day 'Good Bye Dear I'll Be Back In A Year' was played as they departed for Camp."
George J. North, Sr.
The following is taken from the "official" history of the 351st Infantry Regiment. This booklet was mailed to the members of this regiment soon after World War II ended. it is quoted exactly ... except for the bold face type (added for emphasis).
October, 1944 ...
"Against stiffening resistance by fresh German regiments rushed from the Po Valley, the First Battalion drove for Gesso. Courageous rifleman fought their way into the outskirts of the town on 10 October in a night attack; but were forced to fall back in the face of savage counterattack in great strength. The Second Battalion, attacking along high ground on the right flank, scored limited gains and suffered very heavy casualties in fighting reminiscent of Capello. Major Edwin H. Marks took command of the Second Battalion when Colonel Boyd was seriously wounded, and Colonel Champeny brought up tanks to the high ground overlooking Gesso and ordered the First and Third Battalions to storm the town.
During the night both the First and Third Battalions made repeated desperate attacks on the town, and both units were halted by intense mortar and machine gun fire, in addition to suffering heavy casualties in schu-minefields. British troops on the right of the 351st had not kept pace with the regiment and heavy fire was being received from that flank. Before daylight both battalions pulled back to deflade least they be caught in open ground directly in front of the German positions.
Overwhelming fire power and all-out infantry assault would be necessary to break the bitter resistance, for the enemy had no intentions of withdrawing form his powerful positions.
As Companies E and F battled heavy resistance on 24 October in an attempt to reach Company G , now surrounded and fighting desperately, the following radio message was intercepted form the 1st Parachute Regiment to the 1st Battalion, 4th Parachute Regiment: "Attack Vedriano. Vedriano is decisive!" Men of the First and Third Battalions, themselves locked in battle against desperate Germans counterattacks, noticed the rattle of small arms fire coming through the mist form Vedriano. In the afternoon the sounds of firing faded away and a short time later another message was intercepted: "Vedriano retaken. Eighty Americans captured. "
Although they were overwhelmed and could not hold Vedriano, the men of Company G had approached closer to the Po Valley than any unit in Fifth Army -- for it was less than five thousand yards to Highway 9, the main lateral road for the German forces facing both the Fifth and Eight Armies. The heroic men of the 351st Infantry Regiment had fought and suffered as long as was humanly possible -- had the order come through to attack, they would have come out of their muddy foxholes and again stormed the German bastions in their characteristic savage manner. But with over two thousand dead and wounded in thirty-one days of fighting, and a critical shortage of replacements and ammunition, the 351st dug-in and organized its bloody ground for defense. For the third time in less than a year the 351st Infantry had distinguished itself by spearheading Fifth Army drives up the mountainous Italian Peninsula. Those who survived the bloody Gothic fighting could look upon their accomplishments with pride and thanksgiving."
Louisiana Selected Man
On November 4, 1994, the following conversation took place with my father in his home in Harvey, La.
Self: When you were drafted, how old were you?
George: 23
Self: When were you drafted?
George: My number came up about the middle. I was drafted in August, 1941.
Self: Were you anxious to go?
George: NO ... I wasn't anxious to go. I don't think anybody was very anxious to go.
Self: You were in the service only a short time when Pearl Harbor occurred?
George: I was in Spartenberg, South Carolina, at a replacement training center -- Camp Croft. I was in Spartenberg at the time, sitting in the lobby of the hotel, resting up, having been in town all day, when the news came over the radio about Pearl Harbor. Everybody got excited, we were all ordered back to camp, why nobody knows ... we didn't do nothing.
Self: It was several years before you were sent to Europe ...
George: I was in the service three years before I went overseas. I stayed in Carolina for about two and a half years, working in head quarters as a clerk. I eventually transferred to Blanding, Florida for about six months. To reopen up Camp Blanding as a replacement training center because it had been closed up. So they sent us down there to open that up. A directive came out from Army Headquarters, everybody who was 1A would be reassigned and go overseas. That's what happened. They sent me overseas.
Self: How did you feel about being sent overseas?
George: I didn't know what to expect. I know I was going overseas as a combat ... I hadn't really been trained to be a combat soldier, because I was in the office. I was doing office work for three years. I went to Naples, Italy. Of course, I realized then I would be assigned to combat. I was classified as an administrative NCO, and I had five stripes ... and they didn't need no five stripers in the office up there ... had enough of those. I stayed in the stagging area for about a month and a half, then got assigned to the 351st Infantry Battalion and eventually went into combat. I was only in combat about a month or so ... I got captured by the Germans. And spent the rest of the war in POW camps in Munich, in a little town call Mooseburg.
Self: What were the circumstances around you being captured?
George: This was the later part of the Italian campaign. The unit I was with was ordered to advance, to establish winter quarters in to Po Valley. We kept pushing and pushing through the mountains of northern Italy. This was October of 1944, winter, cold and rain. Much of our marching was at night. Up and down mountains, we walked single file, pitch black, just following the GI in front of me, sometimes knee deep in mud. Once, I walked right off the side of the mountain ... fell 20 feet and was caught up in some trees. Just didn't see the guy in front of me turn, fell right off.
Self: Was there fighting before you were captured?
George: There were battles all around. Actually, we were trying to advance to the Po Valley. In northern Italy, there were mountains all over ... we were told that once in the Po Valley it would be a lot easier to fight the Germans, where there was flat ground.
Self: How many troops were captured?
George: About 50 or 60 of us got surrounded. We had to surrender, because there was nothing else we could do. In fact I was inside the company command post doing some clerical work, because the first the 1st Sargent had got wounded and was sent back to the aid station, so they needed someone down there who knew something about filling out the necessary morning reports and app reports. So they called me up and sent me down there to do that. The morning I got captured, that's what I was working on until some German paratrooper put a machine pistol through the window and -- hollered at me "Comrade" ... meaning do I want to surrender ... and I didn't have much choice in the matter. Either surrender, or get killed.
Self: How were you treated by your captors?
George: Immediately after being captures, the Germans started marching us to the rear. And we walked from that morning till the next morning ... to the rear until they let us stop and rest.
Self: Were they physically abusing you?
George: No. We didn't have anything to eat. They sent us up into Northern Italy. A camp they had set up, we stayed there about three days. Then they shoved us on boxcars. All the while we were on there, there was very little room to sit down. Most of us had to stand up. They took us through the Alps into Germany, to Stalag 7A, a prison camp near Mooseberg outside Munich. And I stayed there for the rest of the war.
Self: How long were you on the train?
George: Oh, we were on the train for four days. When the train stopped, they'd stop, they'd open up the door and throw in some bread. If you got something to eat, fine ... they didn't care. It was miserable because you couldn't sit down.
Self: How many POW's were in this camp?
George: There must have been 3 or 4 thousand, in different buildings. We couldn't roam around the whole camp.
Self: How long were you in POW camp?
George: Six months.
Self: Were there any officers in your building?
George: Officers and enlisted men were separated. We didn't even have any officers at this camp. They were sent to another camp.
Self: Did you know anyone in your area personally?
George: No. Most of them were made up of English. They were PW's for 4 or 5 years. In the early part of the war, they were treated a lot better than at the end of the war. But the Germans did obey the treaty ... and they did let Red Cross parcels come through. I never did get any mail from home. They did let us write. My wife did receive some mail. After I got home, most of the letters I wrote were delivered.
Self: Was there a prisoner in charge of your building or area?
George: They had one person in charge, in most cases he was an English ... they were there the longest. They probably built the camp. They were better set up then most of us. The longer you are there the more items you can gather for use. Everybody recooked. Most of the food they gave us ... had to be recooked. Everybody had what they call a blower. It was made up ... the PW's made it themselves. The tin cans they got in the (Red Cross) parcels, they would save. Open then up, flatten them out, join them together. And make a blower, you just turn the handle and it would blow the air through the coals, actually most time it was wood, so you would get much stronger heat. Cook the food better.
Self: Were there any organized activities?
George: No. It was the middle of winter. They did have some equipment, soccer balls, baseballs, bats. We never got to use them. Right after I got there, the snow began to fall. There was snow on the ground the whole time I was a prisoner. It didn't start to break up until I was released. I was captured in October of 1944, and was released in April 1945.
Self: Were there any organized efforts to escape that you were aware of?
George: During the winter time, you could more or less escape. It wasn't that difficult. But, everybody who tried it, was back in camp in three or four days. They had no place to go. They'd run out of food, and as soon as they would go to a farm house or something, they would be picked up and sent back.
Everyday, the Germans would send work details into Munich, to work for the civilians. Most the time it was cleaning bricks, picking up trash. They would feed you one meal, and send you back. So all you had to do there, if you wanted to escape, is just hide and just don't come back and take off. The Germans didn't seem to care too much, because they figured you'd be back in about a week. And that was true, everybody I knew left (escaped) came back in a week's time.
Self: What do you recall about the events leading up to your release?
George: I'd say ... four or five days before the American troops came through ... we could hear the artillery fire in the distance. When they got close, we could hear the small arms fire. So we know they were coming. So we just waited. The German guards just took off when they got close.
After four or five days, they took us to an airfield. I was taken into France ... to Rheams, France. I was sent to a hospital for about a week, a week and a half with a very bad cold.
We were told that transportation home would be slow, so they asked us if we wanted to go into Paris, or over to London. So, I went over to England for four weeks, waiting for transportation to come home.
Self: What happened when you arrived back in the United States?
George: They sent us home on a thirty day leave. Then I was sent to Miami for additional rest. After that they sent me back to Camp Shelby, Mississippi. By this time, the war with Japan ended, and they started the process of discharging everybody. I was discharged in November of 1945.
I got a medical disability discharge, stomach problems. I get a disability pension, about $86 per month, ever month.
Self: How long after your discharge did you become aware of GI benefits? Were you aware of benefits before you entered the service?
George: No, they didn't have anything set up before the war. All the GI benefits came after the end of the war. Congress passed all these GI benefits deals.
I bought a house. I went to Tulane for 10 years, at night. They paid for everything.
Self: It was now 1955. The world had changed a great deal. The United States was in a cold war. What do you remember about that?
George: I remember the problems with the Berlin wall. I remember the Berlin lift, very distinctly.
Self: Did you feel angry about that?
George: Yes, The air lift lasted a whole year, it cost us a lot of money.
Self: In 1955, Russia was our enemy. During the war, Russia was our ally. How did you feel about Russia while you were in the service?
George: Russia, I knew that Russia was going to be a problem. But, there wasn't much we could do about it. Patton wanted to fight, but there's no way we could fight the Russians. Russia is too big. We'd run into the same problems Hitler ran into. Supply lines are too long, winters were too rough. We wouldn't beat them, you can't fight a war in that kind of weather.
Self: When you were in the service, did you think about Russia as being your ally, or as being the enemy?
George: Both really.
Self: Did your commanding officers speak about Russia?
George: No, we were too busy fighting the war.
Self: Did you see any Russians during the war?
George: Only in PW camp, and only after we were liberated.
Self: What do you remember about the Bay of Pigs, or the Cuban Missile Crisis?
George: It was a very scary time. Some were building fall out shelters. I didn't see any point. If they dropped a nuclear bomb on New Orleans, no one would survive anyway.
Self: How did you feel about the war in Korea?
George: We shouldn't have gone. I knew many people, who had joined the reserves that were went to Korea. They weren't very happy. It was all political. We shouldn't have fought in Korea ... it was a big waste of money ... we didn't accomplish anything.
Self : If you had to do it all over again, would you go to Europe and fight again?
George: If it came to a crisis like it was, yes.
Self: Would you go to Korea and fight?
George: No.
Self: Would you go to Vietnam and fight?
George: No, Vietnam wasn't necessary.
Self: Would you go to Europe and fight, even if you knew you would be captured again?
George: Even if I knew I would be captured ... Yes.
Self: Thanks, DAD ...
On November 11, 1994, the following conversation took place with my father in his home in Harvey, La ... a follow up to the original interview on one week earlier.
Self: I thought today that we would go back and talk about your train ride from northern Italy into Germany (after being captured, going to the POW camp.
Self: After being captured , you were forced marched to the train?
George: After we were captured, they gathered us up and started marching us to the rear. We walked all that day, all the following night. The Germans would occasional stop to change guards. It rained the entire time, and the Germans had taken our rain gear. We were soaking wet. We didn't have any food while we were walking, and if we wanted water we had to get it out of the ditch. We walked for sixteen hours before we stopped. They locked us in a barn. Some of us stripped to our draws and laid down with the cows, it was the only way to get warm. I guess we got about 3 or 4 hours sleep, that's about it.
They brought in some black fluid, they called coffee. It was black like coffee, but it wasn't coffee. It was hot. We started walking again, and eventually arrived at a staging area, a train station. We stayed there about 3 days, there were many other POW's. They fed us something. I don't know what it was.
At the train, we were loaded into a box car. I don't know how many were in the car with me. All I know is that there was not enough room for everyone to sit on the floor at once. We tried to work it out among ourselves, that 50% would stand and 50% would sit, but that didn't last long. Everyone was miserable, many arguments started. There weren't any fights, just lots of shouting.
I was lucky enough to wiggle myself to the back of the car by the wall. I could lean up against the wall, and every once and a while I could squat. There was a window, a small window. It was snowing, so we could reach out the window and get some snow. Every so often when the train would stop, the Germans would put in a can of water and throw in a bag of bread. Most of it would go the the men by the door ... if you got any you were lucky.
At the PW camp, when we were unloaded, there was a pile of coats. I guess the Red Cross had arranged for it. All I had was a field jacked. I did have heavy underwear. I picked up an overcoat ... like an old Frenchmen would wear ... it was cold when you got off that train. I was assigned to Stalag 7A. The bunks were three high and two deep. Originally, I had a lower bunk ... later I was able to get an upper bunk. I found out the lower bunk had too many bugs. Fleas, roaches, all kinds ...
We did get a hot shower upon arrival, but that was it for 3 months. The buildings were well built, with electric light, and water, cold water ... so no one bathed in that cold water ... we cleaned up as best we could. No question, we were all buggy. I had one other hot shower, 3 months later, but that was it till I was liberated.
Self: You were on the train for four days traveling to the POW camp. Were you ever let out of your box car during that time?
George: No way ... inside that little box car for four days ... as a replacement, I didn't really know anybody in my car. There was no system for dividing up the little water and bread we were given.
Self: How did you manage to relieve yourself, being in a box car for four days?
George: They had a big wooden container in the middle of the car, opposite the door ... that's what you had to use. By the time we got to where we were going, that container was full, and it was all over the place. This made the crowding worse, as the people in the middle now wanted to get to the back ... get away from that box. In the beginning, it might have been an advantage to be near the box. If you had to go, you had to fight your way over there. If you had a good spot, you gave it up, there was no way of getting back. Later on, with the train stopping and starting, that stuff was all over the place, it was a mess.
Self: In other words, it was mostly every man for himself on the box car?
George: Ya ... everyone was quite miserable ... we just couldn't put up with one another after a while. No fist fight, a lot of name calling, screaming and hollering ... we were miserable.
Self: What was a typical day like at the POW camp? Did the Germans wake you up, or did you wake yourself up?
George: Well, you woke up quite early in the morning. A detail would go down to the mess to get what they called breakfast. They either called it tea or coffee, I don't know what it was, but at least it was hot. That's just about all you got in the morning. The Germans would not bother us too much. Except about once a week, they would run us outside, and let us stand outside in the snow for about fifteen hours. Most of the time we had to stand in line. By the time you got back inside, you were numb all over from the cold.
George: Every morning, the Germans would send a detail into Munich to work cleaning up, cleaning bricks, stuff like that. Non-commissioned officers were not required to, but most of us did go, primarily for food and for wood. We needed wood to recook our food, and the only way to get wood was from town. In town we would get a meal at noon. Most of the time it was a soup, Cabbage soup or potato soup, but it was good.
Self: You were fed better in Munich than at PW camp?
George: Well, you got a noon day meal, which we didn't get in camp. At PW camp, we didn't get much to eat for breakfast or lunch. Hot water for breakfast, a little bowl of soup, with maybe a potato. ... that was it. You didn't get a lot of food. When you went to Munich, you got a good meal, and when you came back ... your buddy would have your portion of the noon meal still there, so you got to eat that too. You got fed twice that day. It was worthwhile to go in once in a while.
Self: If dinner was the best meal, what did you get for dinner?
George: Generally, we got a couple of potatoes and a soup, generally cabbage soup. The potatoes were boiled, some were half rotten. We used to take the potatoes and make a soup out of them ourselves. That's why we needed firewood ... to recook the food. We recooked their soup too, it was always cabbage ... black ... sour ... it wasn't that good. Everybody had a buddy. You would put the food together and cook together, eat together. The only wood we had was wood we brought back from Munich. Sometimes, when my buddy and I didn't have any wood, we would have to use someone else's fire ... we would have to rush out there when they were finished to see if we could cook our food before their fire went out.
Everybody, every night would recook their food outside. Each building was fenced with barbed wire ... we could go outside anytime we wanted, but could not move from building to building.
When we had Red Cross parcels ... we had sugar, maybe chocolate ... we would take the har-tack, ground it up and make what we called a pudding. GOOD PUDDING, something sweet.
Self: What did y'all do to occupy your time?
George: Nothing ... just talk ... talk about home, talk about what you wanted to do when you got home, talked about what you were going to eat when you got home. The good food, what you missed most.
Self: Thanks, DAD ...
Postscript:
Self: With fifty years of hindsight, what do you think about the effects of World War II?
George: Hitler was a very evil person. He caused more worldwide destruction, more misery, and more killings than any other person. Yet, from all his evil and destruction something good did happen. In 1930, 1940 when Hitler started his war the wheels of progress were just about at a stand still worldwide. Roosevelt had just started his New Deal, but things were still moving very slow. Hitler's war started the wheels turning all over the world and over 50 years later they are still turning all over the world.
In 50 years our technology has gone beyond our imagination. Hitler has given us the disposable plastic bedpan and rockets that go to the moon and beyond. Our airplanes fly so fast and so high we cannot see them. Our world which we thought to be so big is now too small. We now have a bomb that can destroy the world all by itself, just press the button.
Hitler's war is responsible for advancing technology 100 years in a 50 year span. Hitler did not build these things and did not even dream of them. His war made us build and do all of these and we did them in a short period of time. We did this because we knew we needed them to destroy and defeat our enemies.
Good over Evil.
Self: What about Harry Truman?
George: I don't blame Truman for using the nuclear bomb on Japan. They pulled a dirty trick at Pearl Harbor ... look at all the trouble they caused. They deserved it.
Self: What about Joe McCarthy?
George: Joe McCarthy, he was a typical politician ... who was looking out for Joe.
Self: Did you believe what he was saying?
George: I didn't pay much attention to him. He called people commies, but they weren't ... he used the same tactics as Hitler. Tell people something long enough and hard enough, they're going to believe it, whether it's a lie or not. Politics works the same way today.
Self: Did you vote for Ike? Was he a good president?
George: Yes, he was good, but not a great president. I think that some of the planning that went into D-day was wrong. We didn't have to waste so many lives on the beaches ... there must have been a better way to proceed. How many were killed on the first wave? How many did we kill?
Self: What about Kennedy? John F. Kennedy?
George: Did I vote for Kennedy? No ... I never did like the Kennedy clan.
... ... ...
George: WWII is the last war that will be fought like ... you line up here, I line up there ... at sunrise ... we start shooting. The guy with the most men wins.
The End
George North, Jr.
